Monday, October 19, 2015

Jon - Preface, Chapter 1 27 September 2015

Doug,

I apologize for the late start on our second round of e-mails for our second book.  I am excited to read CS Lewis's mere Christianity. 

While reading these chapters, I am going to organize my thoughts this way:

1. Give a short summary of what I think Lewis is saying.
2. Talk about what impacted me, spoke to me, and what I found to be the best parts of the chapter.
3. Raise any questions or concerns I have about the chapter.

Preface.

1. Summary

The preface had several interesting points. The part that stood out most to me was Lewis’s metaphor of the hallway and the rooms. On Lewis’s account, the hallway is what he calls “mere Christianity”. Now he doesn't explain it too much in the preface, but he says that his definition of “Christian” is the original meaning found in Acts chapter 11 verse 26– essentially the disciples who accepted the teaching of the apostles.

He says that in the rooms are all the fine chairs and meals, but the hall is the place to wait in to try various doors and ultimately come to a decision about what room you want to enter. He says that even though the rooms may differ from one another, there are common rules for the whole house.

He seems especially concerned about making room for the fact that there are separate doors. Near the end of the preface he makes an attempt to give space to people to decide on a door - are these doctrines true, is there holiness here, does my conscience move me toward this door.  He also seems concerned about giving space to people who choose different doors. If they are wrong, then he notes that they need your prayers. If they are your enemies, then you are required by the rules of the house to pray for them.

2. Best Parts

One of the things I liked most about the preface was Lewis’s acknowledgment that he is limited in giving advice to people. It's always nice to read a book where the author, from the get-go, states that he understands the limitations of his knowledge and experience.  He says “I have had a great dislike of people who, themselves in ease and safety, issue exhortations to men in the front line… No man, I suppose, is tempted to every sin… I… do not feel myself qualified to give advice about permissible and impermissible [actions regarding that which I have not directly experienced.]”

3. Questions.

I do have some questions about the existence of what he calls “belief common to Christians at all times” and the rooms connected to the hallway.  Lewis obviously thinks the rooms are legitimately connected to the hallway, but he also believes only one of these rooms was for him. I'm not sure if he thinks there is one room that's true, or if there are different rooms that are equally appropriate depending on who you are.  I also have a question concerning the existence of the rooms. If the hallway represents the common belief among all Christians, and that hallway is good, why do you even need a room? Why is the hallway “not a place to live in..”?  If “mere Christianity” is what we find in Acts 11:26, why all the additional rooms?

But I also have a question concerning what he calls “belief common to Christians at all times.”  I am not sure there is a belief common to Christians at all times.  I am not sure the hallway actually exists.  Given the wide variety of Christian beliefs that existed even immediately after the death of Jesus, Lewis needs to do more to show there is a common core belief that all Christians held.  And if there is any thing that they all held in common, it's not clear that what they all believe counts as the most important doctrines of Christianity.  The Gnostic Christians, for example, certainly used the word Jesus, but their conception of who/what that meant was very different from, say, the Roman Christians.  He also says that these beliefs were common to Christians “at all times.” This makes it even harder to try to find common ground among Christians, especially given the wide variety of groups who call themselves Christian that have developed over its 2000 year plus existence.  Bottom line is, I am not sure you can actually claim there is a hallway (core beliefs) and I am not sure you can separate the rooms from the hallway.  I would need to see more reasons to agree that there actually is something called “mere Christianity.”


My version doesn't have a forward, so I just did chapter 1, the law of nature.  

Chapter 1

1. Summary

Lewis’ main points are summed up in the final paragraph of Chapter 1.  Based on Lewis’s observations, there are two facts about the universe:

One, humans hold the idea that they ought to behave in a certain way.  And two, humans don't behave the way they believe they should.  “They know the law of nature; they break it.”

He gets to these two conclusions by observing that when humans quarrel they always appeal to an external standard, they expect the other person to know about the standard, and they argue about what's right or wrong with regards to the standard. 

This standard is what Lewis calls “the law of human nature.”  It's a common morality that we all have.

He claims that we must all believe in a moral law because when we fail to keep it, we always make excuses to try to show that we did not actually break it.

2. Good Points

I really liked this chapter because Lewis is trying to develop an argument that any person can accept. He is using examples that many people can understand, and he is making basic arguments that don't require some sort of religious experience or pre-existing religious belief in order for them to make sense.  

In other words he is trying to show that a rational person can look at these facts, and come to the conclusion that a moral law exists.  I like Lewis’s angle because it's something we can all talk about, without getting into arguments about whether a specific religious experience/authority is trustworthy, reliable, or appropriate.  In other words he's engaging in a conversation that everyone can participate in, not just those who already agree with him.  This is a welcome relief to the usual way people argue about religion which involves the people bearing down and saying one of three things over and over again:

1.  that my sacred book is truer/wiser than yours
2.  that  my leader is better/closer to God than yours, or
3. that my religion produces real happiness while yours just produces false   happiness. 

All of these common ways of arguing about relgion, as I quickly learned during my mission in Mexico, never produce anything valuable and always create hostility instead of understanding.

So I really like how he is going about his discussion.

3. Questions/Concerns

However, the disadvantage of not arguing like people usually do about religion (i.e. bearing down against one another and just asserting things over and over again without actually listening to each other) is that it requires more work. 

My concern about chapter 1 is that it doesn't have enough reasons to fully agree with Lewis. 

His argument is what is known as an “inference to the best explanation.”

Basically, he describes something that happens, he looks at all the explanations for why something happens, and chooses the best explanation.

Lewis says that he observed people talking and arguing as if a moral law exists. He says that when we argue about these things, we all seem to know what this law is, and he further notes that we often go to lengths to show that we in fact are keeping the moral law while others are not.

One explanation for this is that a real moral law exists, that we as humans know it by our nature, and that we know we ought to follow it.  That is the explanation Lewis believes is the best.  His conclusion would be that a moral law exists.

But I am not sure his conclusion is clearly the best explanation for what he is describing. What he's saying is that because we all act and believe a certain way,  whatever we act and believe about must be true.  But this doesn't make a lot of sense. 

Consider a small example: suppose I'm camping with my friends in the cave and we hear something in the cave at night. We also all happen to come from a village where superstition is rampant.  We would all believe that the noise in the cave could be some monster was sent to torment us because we didn't do something right.  We would talk about the monster we would even reason about what we should do considering the fact that we believe the monster is real. But just because we think something and act as if something is true doesn't necessarily make it true in the real world.  The conclusion, there must be a monster clearly isn’t the best explanation for why my friends and I were acting and behaving a certain way.

The same could be said about a moral law. To be clear I am not saying a moral law does not exist. But I am saying the mere observation that people talk and act as if one exists is not a good reason to believe a moral law does exist.

There are other explanations for why people might talk and act this way. He tries to address these other reasons in chapter 2, so I will save my discussion of those other reasons for chapter 2.

5 comments:

  1. Doug's Comments to Jon's Comments on the Preface

    I agree there is some basic things Jesus taught.
    I believe the common rules of the house are basic things Jesus taught in Beatitudes. Mourn with those who mourn. Be meek, be a peacemaker, be okay with be persecuted for doing the right thing, be kind to your brother, pray to God, give to poor, Love your enemies, don't do your alms before men. Pray to God in Secret. Forgive others, Fast for a purpose. Care more about treasures in heaven than earthly treasures. Those are things that all Christian religions have some basic knowledge of that doesn't vary to much from different religions. There is a ton of common ground between the Christian religions today.

    As you know Jon I probably struggle with this part in that if there is something I feel will help someone else I tend to offer advice freely sometimes when it is not wanted. If you have felt that way I'm sorry. When I love or believe in something I tend to probably care too much which leads to me giving out all sorts of advice whether wanted or not. I think it might be one of those bad "Jensen" gene traits. Just know I care just sometimes really struggle not saying anything when I have strong beliefs and impressions. If you believe there is something I'm missing out on I hope you'll do the same for me.

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  2. Doug's Comments to Jon's Comments on the Preface (Con't)

    So Jon, I probably should have left this topic alone. I hope you know that I'm just expressing my thoughts and feelings. In no way am I trying to put myself on a pedestal for liking the room and being in it. OK I believe we need rooms. Why? because those rooms help us examine ourselves weekly. Just today while taking the sacrament I thought of several mistakes I made last week that I hope to improve upon this week. If I had stayed home and watched the NFL(which is where my natural man would take me) I wouldn't probably have recognized those items I need to improve upon. I thought of several things I would like to do better. The room as I see it is a religion. Whether is a Catholic Mass or Evangilical church meeting I believe those rooms provide an opportunity each week to become better. Oh those rooms are manned by imperfect people who make mistakes but I think the rooms provide an opportunity for growth. I believe the rooms offer a great opportunity remember who we really are and for additional strivings to be better. For me personally most of what I like about the LDS room is the music. Today once again I felt the spirit through music. The words of hymns speak to my soul. Not something I can really explain other than when I'm singing a hymn I have lots of impressions of things I need to improve upon. I'm not saying that everyone's experience is the same. But for me this is my experience.

    A belief common to all Christians is Love one another, Pray to God(may be different how you go about for different religions), do what is right. for me this is the light of Christ that we all have. I have met and spent long talks on Airplanes with Evangelical Christians. I shared with one lady the for strength of Youth. Item by item she believed exactly what is taught there. I was amazed at how close we were on almost every commandment. We do have many of the same beliefs. My good friend Alan amino at work is a faithful Presbyterian. His basic beliefs are very similar to mine. There is much more common ground with other faiths than there is separate ground. In fact, most of the basic commandments that Presbyterian and Catholic and LDS people believe in are very common to doctrine. I couldn't help listening to the Pope last night give his speech on the importance of marriage and family. How fathers and mothers need to get along.

    Ten common beliefs among I think most every Christian believes and could provide the hallway.

    1. There is a caring loving God who wants us to do the right thing
    2. Prayer can help us grow closer to God and help us become better people and we receive assistance from God when we pray.
    3. Jesus born by Virgin Mary. He was resurrected on third day and will come again one day.
    4. Love your neighbor as your self
    5. I believe most of the Christians in the world believes and tries to live by the 10 commandments
    6. We can be forgiven of our sins because of Jesus
    7. The attributes of Christ(meek, thankfullness, kindness, long suffering) are something we should all strive for
    8. The Holy Ghost or Spirit is real
    9. Fasting can help us (different definitions but a belief in this)
    10. Sacrifice brings forth blessing from heaven

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  3. Doug's Comments on Jon's Comments on Chapter 1

    I agree with what you are saying here.   That said one thing that is common among all these Christian religions is the Bible.   I like the thoughts of looking at what is common and agree on things we have common. Elder Ballard talked about this several times in the last couple of years.     Much of the time spent trying to prove whether one person's religion is better is wasted time.  I think what CS Lewis approach is to look at the common ground.   Belief in God and doing the right thing for the right reasons.

    Yes I agree his reasoning for a moral law is not conclusive.    Much of moral law to me just makes sense.  Not all.    But a portion of why I really believe in this has nothing to do with reasoning or conclusive evidence.    The reason I believe their is a moral law is because of what Jesus said.  If any man will do his will He shall know of the doctrine whether it be of God or whether I speak of myself.    So for me it is I've tried it and like the results on how it feels and what it helps me become.   In other words because of faith I've experienced things today during high council I wouldn't experienced if I hadn't exercised faith and showed up despite being tired.   We had a return missionary report in high council today.  We said goodbye to two high councilmen who were released.  It was an amazing experience of love and joy with both.   I felt the Holy Ghost come into that room.  It was as real to me as seeing an angel.  

    Again,  I hope I can speak freely here without offending you Jon.   Thanks for responding.   Next week chapter 2.  

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  4. Jon, you said "I am not sure there is a belief common to Christians at all times." I believe that Lewis is trying to eliminate all the denominational influences and put forth the basic doctrines/beliefs that are required to be called a Christian. He makes a point of clarifying that the name Christian has been watered down to just mean a good person by some and he is going to get to the core beliefs of what makes one a Christian.

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  5. I still am not convinced that there are shared beliefs between all the people claiming to be Christians in the history of the world. They are just too different.

    This link does a good job explaining the wide variety of Christian beliefs in the early part of its existence, before it was narrowed by certain leaders:

    http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/christianity_historical.html

    Lewis would probably agree, but this raises a question - what "mere" Christianity is he talking about? Which version? He is already excluding some and including others and he doesn't explain why. Maybe he will explain it later, but I want to know on what basis he is doing this and why he thinks that his version of Christianity is the actual version.

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